Curse

dancing gnome · May 08, 2010, 05:22 AM // 05:22

It's not about whether we choose to side with the White Mantle or Shining Blade, or which one is right or wrong, good or evil. I don't care about that. It's about the White Mantle being believable in this scenario as actual people and not brainless zombies.

When people do evil, they do it for a reason. They don't just do it because they are evil. In GI Joe, Captain Planet, "insert bad morning cartoon here" the bad guys do that, but that's because the writers who produce those are bad and the audience doesn't care, they just wanna see the hero blow stuff up.

When Shiro killed the emperor, he did it because he was manipulated into thinking he would be betrayed, not because he wanted to kill the emperor. When the White Mantle beat up farmers and steal their trade goods, or stop the player character when he tries to travel through Kryta, they do it, err, because Lynsey wants us to see them as bad guys who need an ass kicking?

You don't have to write zombies to write an enemy. The White Mantle risk their lives to do what they do, they aren't all just going to do that because they are evil.

Zahr Dalsk · May 08, 2010, 05:46 AM // 05:46

ArenaNet do not employ any real writers; news at eleven.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 08, 2010, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

It's not about whether we choose to side with the White Mantle or Shining Blade, or which one is right or wrong, good or evil. I don't care about that. It's about the White Mantle being believable in this scenario as actual people and not brainless zombies.

When people do evil, they do it for a reason. They don't just do it because they are evil. In GI Joe, Captain Planet, "insert bad morning cartoon here" the bad guys do that, but that's because the writers who produce those are bad and the audience doesn't care, they just wanna see the hero blow stuff up.

When Shiro killed the emperor, he did it because he was manipulated into thinking he would be betrayed, not because he wanted to kill the emperor. When the White Mantle beat up farmers and steal their trade goods, or stop the player character when he tries to travel through Kryta, they do it, err, because Lynsey wants us to see them as bad guys who need an ass kicking?

You don't have to write zombies to write an enemy. The White Mantle risk their lives to do what they do, they aren't all just going to do that because they are evil.

They are wanting to hold onto power. That is their reasoning. The whole basis for their power has been destroyed (the Mursaat) and now they have no real justification to deny Salma the throne, cept to cling onto their own power.

Also they aren't exactly being written as zombies. The way I see it written is that they panicked and decided to hire people of questionable repute to help enforce their law. There are other ways they could have done it, but they chose this road to take and as such it has reflected on them.

Gli · May 08, 2010, 06:09 AM // 06:09

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

I guess they watched a lot of saturday morning cartoons.

Nerel · May 08, 2010, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusanyu

Yes because were supposed to find the members of a group that lead innocents to slaughter under false pretenses likable.

I agree totally, like any sane person I was sickened to see those traitorous scum murder innocent White Mantle soldiers, kidnap the Chosen they were escorting and lead them deep into their jungle abode only to sacrifice them to their dark god Melandru (Goddess of savage beasts!) by feeding those poor souls to a pack of blood thirsty spiders...

The Chosen were SACRIFICED by the Shining Blade, fed alive to horrid giant spiders all while that dark heathen 'priestess' Evennia watched on from her safe vantage point, reveling in the carnage her followers had perpetrated in the name of their dark and blood thirsty gods.

Obey. End this threat to Kryta...

Kook~NBK~ · May 08, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

I agree totally, like any sane person I was sickened to see those traitorous scum murder innocent White Mantle soldiers, kidnap the Chosen they were escorting and lead them deep into their jungle abode only to sacrifice them to their dark god Melandru (Goddess of savage beasts!) by feeding those poor souls to a pack of blood thirsty spiders...

The Chosen were SACRIFICED by the Shining Blade, fed alive to horrid giant spiders all while that dark heathen 'priestess' Evennia watched on from her safe vantage point, reveling in the carnage her followers had perpetrated in the name of their dark and blood thirsty gods.

Obey. End this threat to Kryta...

What nonsense! IF the Shining Blade (who out-numbered my small party 2 to 1) were "sacrificing" the Chosen to the spiders, they certianly would NOT have asked us to help rescue them. Instead, they would have done their level best to destroy us and keep their ritual secret. They certianly would NOT have let us go!

Now, who was it that DID sacrifice Chosen to their "gods" and tried to kill us to keep their secret? Can you say "White Mantle?"

QueenofDeath · May 08, 2010, 12:58 PM // 12:58

I wish they had karma points here and plus minus hands so I could just sit here and give the OP -1 karma over an over an over an over an over an over an over an over an over an over an...........

Nerel · May 08, 2010, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

What nonsense! IF the Shining Blade (who out-numbered my small party 2 to 1) were "sacrificing" the Chosen to the spiders, they certianly would NOT have asked us to help rescue them. Instead, they would have done their level best to destroy us and keep their ritual secret. They certianly would NOT have let us go!

The Shining Blade are bumbling cowards who prefer to 'recruit' weak minded and gullible fools to do the dangerous work for them, outnumbering a competent opponent by two to one isn't good odds for the 'Blade'...

You and your seemingly tough band stumble upon their dark ritual and Evennia, ever the politician, plays innocent, blames the White Mantle and asks for your help... yeah, that's believable... The Shining Blade who have been at home in the jungle for years suddenly get outsmarted by some spiders... uh huh, Evennia the healing monk sits atop her perch overlooking the carnage spamming Heal Area healing herself constantly as her poor victims are eaten alive... uh huh, yeah, she's so innocent...

And yet she still managed to recruit you to face her foes, recruit you to aid the Vizier in obtaining his staff, opening the door of Komalie...

The truth is known, they see all, we Obey.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 08, 2010, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Okay, this is getting annoying. There is a lot of valid points and interesting discussion here, and it is being interrupted by idiotic RP which either belongs in another thread or in another section of the forum. please, guys, can you take it elsewhere, perhaps to the Obey vs Dismantle thread?

Nerel · May 08, 2010, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Okay, this is getting annoying. There is a lot of valid points and interesting discussion here, and it is being interrupted by idiotic RP which either belongs in another thread or in another section of the forum. please, guys, can you take it elsewhere, perhaps to the Obey vs Dismantle thread?

Fine, fine... here you go. Of course it's one sided, you really think a five person team at Arenanet is going to write, script and program (or otherwise create content) for BOTH sides of this conflict, so players have the option of choosing a side to ally with? No, of course they don't have the resources, and why should they... Anet already knows how they want the 'story' to play out, and thus they know which side they want to focus on... it doesn't matter what the facts of the matter are, it doesn't matter what previous game lore might suggest, it doesn't matter what the players want... The Shining Blade will win the conflict, the illegitimate daughter of a treacherous coward will take the throne and there is no point letting players 'play' the other side... the anti-Mantle spin suits that purpose just fine... there is nothing to discuss, no reason for this thread... etc.

Seriously, other than having a little fun with the Obey/Dismantle thing, this thread and any like it are pointless, the reasons for the one sided nature of the official propaganda are obvious to anyone with half a brain, there is nothing to discuss.

Amy Awien · May 08, 2010, 10:53 PM // 22:53

The future history has already been written and this thread was not about the question if it is the White Mantle or the Shining Blade who are the evil party, but about the the White Mantle are portrayed as the all too easily recognizable and stereotypically evil goons.

sindex · May 09, 2010, 01:09 AM // 01:09

It would be hilarious if this “War” is just the set up for the eventual fall of southern Kryta. Just picturing Livia coming to Lion’s Arch amiss the heated conflict between the two factions, and telling her allies that she has found the Scepter of Orr. She then proceeds to produce the scepter, and presses a little red knob at the top of the it; which in turn releases a powerful energy surge. This is where our friendly neighborhood elder dragon Zhaitan comes out of hibernation. As the enormous tidal wave approaches LA, one of the White Mantle turns to state the obvious: “See and they use too call us the bad guys.”

Yeah, but I can see where the OP is going with this. It does seem the White Mantle are becoming a bunch of Snidely Whiplash cliché’s.

MithranArkanere · May 09, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

They ARE evil. We are good. We kill evil. They die. End of story.

Why is there so many people trying to justify or explain their position?
Just because they wear in white and gold?
They are totalitarian bastards that took advantage of the charr crisis to take hold of the power, and once they got it, they did anything necessary to keep it.
Evil.
E-vil.

This is an evil generation
I see with my eyes
I seen'em walking around in their suits
And honey I seen the ties

Evil girls biting good girls
Turning good girls into evil girls
Evil boys eating evil hamburgers
Evil boys eating evil fries

This is an evil generation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
As far as the eye can see
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Tune Into this radio station
Rock and Roll Evacuation
In a fit of emergency

We are just hungry little creatures
Feeding upon lies
I seen'em lining us up on the wall
And trading us for pies

Seen a man on the television telling me to listen to the radio
Hear the man on the radio, telling me no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

This is a bad, bad situation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
It's not looking too good to me
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Evil Spreads across the nation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
Apocalyptic insurgency

You kill the body child, but the head is still gonna live
You can give all your money now, until there's nothing left to give
You can play your electric guitar but it ain't gonna change the world
You can get all emotional on me, cry like a little girl
Cry

We are disposable creations, they're throwing us away
Ignoring everything that we do and everything that we say
Mr. President make a little money, sending people you don't know to iraq
Mr. President I don't like you, you don't know how to rock

This is an evil generation
Rock and Roll Evacuation
As far as the eye can see
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Tune Into this radio station
Rock and Roll Evacuation
In a fit of emergency

Got it?
Evil!
There's nothing good in evil people, because you know, they are EVIL!
EVIL!
How hard can it be to understand?
They are evil and evil is to be destroyed.
No gray zones. Now get out there and kill as many as you can.

Geez.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 09, 2010, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

They ARE evil. We are good. We kill evil. They die. End of story.

Why is there so many people trying to justify or explain their position?
Just because they wear in white and gold?
They are totalitarian bastards that took advantage of the charr crisis to take hold of the power, and once they got it, they did anything necessary to keep it.
Evil.
E-vil.

*snip out music lyrics*

Got it?
Evil!
There's nothing good in evil people, because you know, they are EVIL!
EVIL!
How hard can it be to understand?
They are evil and evil is to be destroyed.
No gray zones. Now get out there and kill as many as you can.

Geez.

I disagree with the 'no gray zones' comment because to me good and evil comes down to a personal standpoint, meaning there is a lot of gray area cause there is 6 billion variations on black and white. Not to mention, the White Mantle soldier who is told only 'Those are the guys who killed your leaders' isnt exactly evil, they are making their decisions based on the information they are given.

I will, however, definitely give you the bolded text. They are trying to hold onto power that they didnt exactly deserve (it was the Mursaat that pushed back the Charr, and now they are almost gone), but does that necessarily make them evil? Not exactly. It is the methods that they employ that makes them that way.

CronkTheImpaler · May 09, 2010, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Evil is Evil. There are no shades of gray in the black tar-like pit of an evil soul.

Its not perception, perception IS reality.

There is good and there is evil, this is not a hard concept to grasp. Whether or not the shining blade or White Mantle are good or evil is irrelevent. This is a video game folks. If anyone begins to blur the lines of reality just take a deep breath step back ...... and go play D&D.

In the end all games, ALL OF THEM have the good guys and the bad guys. Right down to pac-man. Anyone who flirts with the paranormal (unseen ones) in this case are the evil ones. They are an afront to the 5 gods. I guess thats the way i always understood it. Even in society when someone strays way outside the norms and begins to worship false gods or inanimate objects the slide into the murky depths of evil.

Think real hard and youll see the similarities and distinctions between the religeous lore of GW and the worlds religeons.(good Evil) Seriously "its really easy if you try" to quote John Lenin.

just have fun runnin around GW killin new people!!!! come on folks new stuff to slaughter with discord and sabway lmao.

Cronk

PS milthran what song is that??? AND if you wrote it PM me. ASAP

$neekie · May 09, 2010, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I dont get why we cant side with the White Mantel, we can buy and wear the costume, but cant side with them(correct me if im wrong). Would be great if you have the costume they wont attack, i would actually (maybe) buy it, even wenn its ugly.

I keep shouting OBEY! but they still try to rob me each time, really thinking about defecting.

Mzzls

Ps. I like the new story line, it renewed my interest in GW, dont get the "takes to long complains". GW2 isnt here yet anyways.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 09, 2010, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by $neekie

I dont get why we cant side with the White Mantel, we can buy and wear the costume, but cant side with them(correct me if im wrong). Would be great if you have the costume they wont attack, i would actually (maybe) buy it, even wenn its ugly.

I keep shouting OBEY! but they still try to rob me each time, really thinking about defecting.

Mzzls

Ps. I like the new story line, it renewed my interest in GW, dont get the "takes to long complains". GW2 isnt here yet anyways.

That is cause the costume is called a Disguise and not a Uniform... though it doesnt stop them from attacking anyway

Mintha Syl · May 09, 2010, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Oh my, are we really discussing good and evil?? I really thought those stereotypes were only religious things (and part of some flat stories/games) and the real spectre of colours in human behaviour was inherent in GW...
So sad....

BoredJoe · May 09, 2010, 01:26 PM // 13:26

They should really spice it up by introducing some alien abduction stories.

MithranArkanere · May 09, 2010, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

I disagree with the 'no gray zones' comment because to me good and evil comes down to a personal standpoint, meaning there is a lot of gray area cause there is 6 billion variations on black and white. Not to mention, the White Mantle soldier who is told only 'Those are the guys who killed your leaders' isnt exactly evil, they are making their decisions based on the information they are given.

I will, however, definitely give you the bolded text. They are trying to hold onto power that they didnt exactly deserve (it was the Mursaat that pushed back the Charr, and now they are almost gone), but does that necessarily make them evil? Not exactly. It is the methods that they employ that makes them that way.

If you follow someone without making questions, you are a puppet, and puppets are as evil as their puppeteers.
The White Mantle Puppeteers where the Mursaat, and they used people as batteries, but unlike the matrix, they consumed them in the process.
Using souls as energy sources is as evil as evil can be. Remember who else did that? Yup, Abaddon with his Titans.
With the mursaat out of the picture, those that where in higher positions, stepped into power, and they started being much less subtle with their actions, as you can see any time you see a Peacekeeper.

"Shut up and do as you are told" is evil.